AN INTERVIEW with Steve Cheseborough author of Blues Traveling: The Holy Sites of Delta Blues Steve Cheseborough is an independent scholar and performer of the blues. His work has been published in such periodicals as Living Blues, Blues Access, Mississippi, and the Southern Register. He lives in Oxford, Mississippi. His new book, published by the University Press of Mississippi, is Blues Traveling: The Holy Sites of Delta Blues. With photos, maps, directions, and anecdotes, Cheseborough has created the ideal traveling companion in a guidebook to the blues birthplaces, juke joints, and crossroads of Mississippi, Memphis, and Helena. The Library Journal has already sounded praise of the book. "Providing excellent maps and driving instructions, he begins the trip in Memphis and then directs the reader down the western part of the state to Vicksburg, across to Jackson and Meridian, and then north to Tupelo and Oxford. Along the way, Cheseborough provides details on the towns, homes, and gravesites of famous blues musicians, buildings where they played, radio stations, sites of music festivals, and current clubs and restaurants that feature the music. Essential." Q: Steve, Blues Traveling is loaded with firsthand detail. How much work on the road and off the beaten path went into it? My research involved a lot of driving around-and getting lost! In Mississippi, the distances between points of interest are great, and there often aren't a lot of road signs. Plus this is a largely rural state-which makes it beautiful to drive around, but also means that even if you want to stop to ask for directions there might not be anyone around to ask. So I got lost a lot. Then I included detailed directions in the book, to spare my readers that same fate. Q: Reading your book makes a person feel like a local. Some of these sites, the murals, gravestones, street corners, and jukes are amazing. How many people did you interview and how did you learn all this stuff? Oh, maybe a couple dozen formal interviews. And then I also did a lot of just talking to people (which is, of course, one of the South's great pastimes). And I've always been a compulsive reader and an obsessive listener to blues records. A lot of the detail in the book I learned by those methods. Q: You graduated with a degree for the Center for the Study of Southern Culture. What did you study there? I did the master's program in Southern Studies. I started in fall 1997 and graduated in May 1999. Q: How did your work at the Center inform what you did when you wrote Blues Traveling? Well, much of my studies and research were about the blues. My thesis is about Bo Carter, from Bolton, Miss. He was one of the dominant bluesmen of the 1930s, a really creative (and rather racy) lyricist and a superb guitarist. And my job as a graduate assistant was working at Living Blues, which I still freelance for once in awhile. Also while I was a student here at Ole Miss I took a course at the University of Memphis, an ethnomusicology seminar with David Evans, who is one of the world's great authorities on blues. So really everything fit together! If I hadn't come to Oxford and enrolled in the graduate program here, I probably never would have written this book. Q: How friendly is blues country to the traveler? Well, there's a stereotype that Southerners are friendly. And that's one of those stereotypes, fortunately, that turns out to be true! Young or old, black or white, rich or poor or in between-Southerners just seem to have more time and inclination for conversation than people from other parts of the United States. And of course Southerners also tend to have a colorful turn of phrase. The whole art of conversation is still just that here-an art. Even if you're a hard-driving type from New York or Los Angeles, I think you'll enjoy the different pace and attitude down here, at least while you're on vacation! So yes, don't be afraid to get out of your car and start a conversation with someone-that could turn out to be the highlight of your trip. Q: You say the richest mine of bluesmen and blueswomen has been found in the Mississippi Delta. Why is this? Much of the Delta is rather deserted now, since mechanical farming took over. But back in the 1920s, '30s and '40s, the Delta was alive with people. Those huge cotton plantations needed lots of workers. And on weekends, those workers would have money in their pockets. They'd go into town or to a country dance or fish fry. And there'd be musicians there to entertain them, playing at the dances, in clubs, or on street corners. The musicians just followed the people, and the money. And then, once there was a certain critical mass of musicians, that encouraged more musicians. A great musician like Charley Patton or Muddy Waters would have a following of other musicians trying to learn from him or trying to top him. Just as certain cities today have scenes based around certain styles of music, the Delta has always had a blues scene. Q: There are so many place names in the classic songs. In what ways did landscape make blues music? Well, these musicians were playing for local audiences, so naturally they threw in images that their audiences would understand. Highway 61, the levee, the Mississippi River, the Pea Vine Railroad-all those places were familiar to the singers and their audiences. That's one reason to come take this trip yourself, if you've been listening to the blues all your life-all of a sudden those references will be more than just words or places on a map. Q: You perform the blues, too. What's special about playing in and around places where Robert Johnson and Charley Patton played? Well, this might sound a little loony, but I may as well tell you, since I really do believe it: music sounds better in Mississippi. When I sit down and play "Catfish Blues" or "Kindhearted Woman" in Mississippi, it sounds better than when I play the same song in Arizona or New York. It's not just me, either-I've heard the same difference in other musicians. I've heard a few other musicians talk about the phenomenon, too-although it sounds so crazy no one talks about it much. It might be something in the air, the air pressure, the humidity-I'd really like to see someone do a scientific study of this. Now, I'm talking about the blues, since I'm a blues player. Maybe if I played Latin music I'd think the air was better in Havana. But for blues, this is the place. Q: You have such a mastery of sites and spots. Of course, blues lovers will have to buy the book to get the exact directions. But please hit us with some blues highpoints from a few Delta cities. Greenville? Greenville, in many ways, is the rightful capital of the Mississippi Delta. It's the biggest city, and it's right on the Mississippi, and it has always had a blues scene, and still does. Musicians, juke joints, the levee-Greenville's got it all the way. There's an old saying about Greenville's Nelson Street, that you can't get any deeper into the blues than being on Nelson Street on a Saturday night. And boy do they make some great tamales in that town! Greenwood? Man, Greenwood-now there's a town with so much blues heritage and atmosphere. The railroads, the old depot, the big old buildings downtown. And it's a town with a strong connection to Robert Johnson. Robert played everywhere, but he especially liked Greenwood, where he used to play on a street that happens to be called Johnson Street, by coincidence. He died in Greenwood, and he's buried somewhere near there, although we're not sure exactly where! Cleveland? Maybe because of Cleveland, Ohio, this Cleveland's name doesn't conjure up "blues" in people's minds the way that some other towns do. But it's got quite a blues heritage, going back almost 100 years, to when W. C. Handy heard a scruffy band playing here while his orchestra was on break. The audience showered those young locals with money, and that's when Handy decided this blues thing was worth his attention. And right outside Cleveland is Dockery Plantation, where Charley Patton lived. Clarksdale? Clarksdale really must have something in the water, as well as in the air, because so many great musicians have come from that town or right nearby-Muddy Waters, John Lee Hooker, Ike Turner, Sam Cooke, Big Jack Johnson. And with the Delta Blues Education program going strong there, there are probably more stars to come from Clarksdale. They've got a killer blues band there now made up of three teenage girls, two of them sisters. Q: You include Arkansas and the Helena area in the book. What are some of the must see spots in that state? Well, I probably could do another whole book on Arkansas blues sites. Because really, the Mississippi Delta spreads out on both sides of the river, and so does the musical heritage. But a trip to Helena, at least, is essential for any blues lover. That is such a charming old river town. And the people there really appreciate their own history and music. Helena has two museums, a great record store, a great music store, the world's most famous blues radio show (King Biscuit Time)-plus they put on one of the world's great annual music festivals, which is right in the middle of town and totally free. Q: Tell us about the rich sites of Memphis. What must we see and what may disappoint the traveler? Memphis has, to some extent anyway, preserved and rehabbed its music sites-most notably Beale Street. Any city in the South, and many in other parts of the country, has its own equivalent of Beale Street, the traditional black business district, and therefore the music district. But while most of those streets are in decay, Beale Street has been fancied up. Of course it's not like it used to be, and some music fans think that's sad. But on the other hand, it hasn't been torn down. And there is live music every night on Beale Street, which is something you can't say for most of those other streets. So, depending on your attitude, you might be disappointed by Beale Street-or you might love it! It's worth a visit to find out. My book will help you separate the real from the touristy as you walk around there. I have to admit, I love Beale Street. It's kind of the main street of American music history-what Wall Street is to finance, Beale Street is to music. And of course there are a few other sites in Memphis that will interest the music lover, besides Beale Street. Q: Jackson appears to be a big southern urbanity on the outside. What blues highpoints are in Mississippi's capital? Maybe we should keep quiet about Jackson, and keep it our own little secret! I'm kidding of course. If I didn't love to tell people about my blues discoveries, I wouldn't have written this book. And Jackson is quite a discovery. I guess because it's outside the Delta, and it's a big city, it isn't known as a blues center. But in a sense it's where the blues was born, since a lot of the greatest figures were discovered by H. C. Speir, a Jackson furniture- store owner who would audition and record them right in his shop in the 1920s. And then it became an important recording center again in the early 1950s, when Lillian McMurry, another furniture-store owner, made Elmore James and Sonny Boy Williamson's first recordings. And even now, it's the home of the big soul-blues label Malaco. And all along, Jackson has had a great live- music scene, from Tommy Johnson and Bo Carter through Elmore and Sonny Boy, Sam Myers, Dorothy Moore-to today, when there is probably more live blues in Jackson than anywhere else in Mississippi. Yeah, Jackson is happening. But don't tell anybody! Q: There is some authenticity sapped out of the blues when it becomes nationalized. No juke joint looks as planned and as clean as The House of Blues. What about your book brings the blues back home and back to the nitty gritty? Well, House of Blues has its place. That chain has brought the blues to a lot of people who wouldn't otherwise have heard it. And when you go to one of those places, or any other big-city nightclub that features blues, you pay your cover and you expect certain things. Like reliability. If a band is listed as playing there, you expect them to play. In a little juke joint in Mississippi, things might not turn out the way you expected. You may have heard there was music tonight, but maybe it was last night instead. So you fill the jukebox with quarters and order a drink, and pretty soon you're dancing with the barmaid. Or maybe the band is there, but the owner doesn't have the money to pay them. So you chip in with the other customers to try to raise the money to get them to play. You throw in $20, which is cool, because there was no cover, and the beers only cost $1. Or maybe you have to give the bass player a ride to go get his bass, if he can remember where it is. Or maybe you have to fill in on bass until he shows up. Yes, things are a little different down here. Q: Let's talk to the first-time blues traveler. What are some general rules of the road to make the trip here fun and fruitful? Well, the book's introduction goes into detail about food, drink, accommodations, getting around, fitting in, all that. But the main thing is just to relax and enjoy yourself. Things move slowly around here. That's a major part of this area's charm. That river's been flowing at its own pace for a long, long time. Don't try to make it speed up or turn around! Also-and this is really important-don't neglect the food! My book focuses mainly on the music, but you can pretty much apply the same outlook to the food: go for what's locally made and down-home. As you drive around, you'll see the usual fast-food places, and even a fancy restaurant here and there. But you'll have the best food and the best times at that little barbecue shack, a catfish joint, a family-owned restaurant that cooks up fresh vegetables and hot cornbread. Q: I imagine blues fans who haven't come to the Delta and the places you describe have a filtered view of blues country. What about coming to Helena, Memphis, and the Delta will change a person's view of the blues? I've seen people who didn't even like blues, or thought they didn't like it, come down here. And it takes about one day to change their attitude. They meet one blues musician, hear one jukebox, travel down one back road, spend one afternoon watching the Mississippi River flow-and that's it. They want to know all about the blues, they want to buy CDs to take home, they want to come back for a festival. And of course the ones who already were into the blues just go crazy over being here. It's like a religious person visiting the Holy Land. Q: Some blues places are now in distressed environs, like Nelson Street and Farish Street. How did they become run- down and in what ways are they being revitalized? There is always talk of revitalizing those places. But somehow the money doesn't come through to finish the job, or sometimes even to start it. Luckily, things don't get torn down too quickly around here. As long as something's standing, there's always a chance it might be restored. Although some people who appreciate history would rather not see anything restored. There is a lot of charm in dilapidation. That goes back to the controversy over Beale Street's renovation. Some love it, others wish it had been left alone. Q: In a few spots you mention the casinos, which have changed the riverside landscape and economies. Has riverboat and dockside gambling been good or bad for the blues? The casinos have brought visitors and money into the area, and some of that filters down to blues museums, blues musicians, school music programs, etc. And some of the casinos contribute to the blues in direct ways-the Horseshoe has a Blues and Legends Hall of Fame Museum, which is free and very good, and Lady Luck gives major support to the King Biscuit Blues Festival. Also, the casinos have become part of the fabric of life in the Delta, which means blues singers now sing about them-Little Milton's "Casino Blues" and Johnnie Taylor's "Last Two Dollars," for example. But it would be nice if they would book more blues musicians, local and national, as entertainers in the casinos. That would give our casinos a Mississippi flavor, instead of trying to emulate Las Vegas or Atlantic City. Q: What is the Mecca of the Blues, the one holy shrine to which each blues fan ought to make a pilgrimage? If Memphis Minnie's your idol, your Blues Mecca might be her grave. If Muddy Waters is your man, then it might be the plantation where he used to drive a tractor. Or maybe you'll get a chill when you see B. B. King's handprints in the pavement in Indianola, or the spot where W. C. Handy first heard the blues. Fortunately, you don't have to decide-they're all within a day's drive of one another, and they're all in the book. As long as you're in the area, you might as well see them all! Q: Who will benefit most from your book, Blues Traveling? One group would be people who own dozens of blues records, belong to a local blues society, maybe even play a little blues on the piano, the guitar, or the harmonica. Those people have heard about all these places for years. Even if they never actually make the trip, they'll get a kick out of reading the book. If you know someone like this, buy the book for him or her immediately. Then there are people who might not be such big music fans, but just enjoy traveling to unusual places. Fascinating though this area is, it is unknown to a lot of people. With this book, they might discover their Inner Bluesman or Blueswoman-or they might just have one heck of a great vacation. And finally, this book will appeal to anyone interested in Southern history, geography, culture, music, or food. Even longtime residents of this area will learn a lot from Blues Traveling. I sure learned a lot from writing it! Q: What is your favorite barely-known site that you write about here? Well, the beauty of this tour is, they're all barely known. OK, there's Beale Street. And Graceland. Those are well-trafficked spots. But even in Memphis, there are music-related sites where tourists rarely tread. And once you head down Highway 61 into Mississippi, you're really off the beaten track. Even though blues is popular these days, it'll be a long time before Disney World opens a branch here-or even House of Blues, for that matter. Q: Now that you have finished the book, are you still discovering spots, are you still blues traveling? Oh, I sure am. It gets into your blood.There'll be some surprises in the second edition. And I'm pretty easy to get hold of-if you're headed this way, give me a call and I might help you plan your trip. Maybe I'll even go with you! |